IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> next question -- who made up the word "choreographer", Kirstein? Petipa?
Paul Parish
post Mar 5 2009, 10:55 PM
Post #1


Platinum Circle
*******

Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,511
Joined: 23-February 02
Member No.: 1,288



If Balanchine was the first to insist on the word "Choreographer' in his credits, that doesn't mean he made up the word. It's greek, obviously, like photographer -- but WHO made up the word itself? Kirstein? Eddy Warburg? Denby? Some German (Laban, Wigman, Jooss?) Diaghilev? Noverre? Lully? How old is it?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rg
post Mar 5 2009, 11:20 PM
Post #2


Sapphire Circle
*******

Group: Editorial Advisor
Posts: 2,349
Joined: 29-August 01
Member No.: 848



one more time, Balanchine disliked the word 'choreographer' - he wanted credit for 'choreography' as in 'choreography by...'
he preferred to be called a 'balletmaster.'
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Farrell Fan
post Mar 6 2009, 12:53 AM
Post #3


Platinum Circle
*******

Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,877
Joined: 15-December 01
From: New York, NY
Member No.: 1,045



I wonder what he would have thought of "Ballet Master in Chief?" Sorry.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Helene
post Mar 6 2009, 01:03 AM
Post #4


Administrator
********

Group: Administrators
Posts: 6,173
Joined: 22-July 03
From: Vancouver
Member No.: 3,390



QUOTE (rg @ Mar 5 2009, 08:20 PM) *
one more time,

What an appropriate phrase, since Choreography by George Balanchine was the credit for "On Your Toes" (IMG:http://ballettalk.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Quiggin
post Mar 6 2009, 01:04 AM
Post #5


Bronze Circle
****

Group: Senior Member
Posts: 269
Joined: 8-October 03
Member No.: 3,763



Murray in the OED cites Burney, History of Music 1789 who says choreography (choreia, dance and graphia, writing) is "an art developed two hundred years ago to delineate the figures and steps of dances." The sense of a designer or arranger of ballet may come through modern French, choregraphe', but I don't have a good French dictionary handy.

My shabby Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon abridged says that choreia is "a dancing: a choral dance," but it's not yet affixed to graphia--the authorship of dance probably and alien concept to them.

~

Violet Verdy, in an interview, she Balanchine wanted to be called a craftsman.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Paul Parish
post Mar 6 2009, 02:22 AM
Post #6


Platinum Circle
*******

Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,511
Joined: 23-February 02
Member No.: 1,288



Sorry, RG --

It's a funny ticking point, but if Balanchine stuck there, it's interesting.

Thanks to Quiggin for pushing the date of name of the activity back at least into the 18th century, which seems like a likely place for the word to arise-- though the high renaissance might be good, too; "Orchesography" comes from around 1589 and got some usage
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bart
post Mar 6 2009, 07:25 AM
Post #7


Diamonds Circle
********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,155
Joined: 18-January 04
From: south Florida
Member No.: 4,271



I've read that Serge Lifer -- in the 1930s -- recommended using "choreautor" or "choreauthor." Has anyone read his "Manifeste du choreographe," 1935?

(Unfortunately, there is so much mis-information on the internet -- or information passed on imperfectly, as in the old children's game of "telephone" -- that it is hard to get definite answers via Google.)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Estelle
post Mar 6 2009, 08:25 AM
Post #8


Platinum Circle
*******

Group: Foreign Correspondent
Posts: 1,670
Joined: 1-December 98
From: Lyon, France
Member No.: 7



Here is the entry for "chorégraphe" in a French Dictionary (trésor informatisé de la langue française):

http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfi...8;s=2222706225;

"CHORÉGRAPHE, subst.
A. Celui, celle qui crée, ordonne, règle les pas et les figures de danses, de ballets. Ce danseur [Serge Lifar] est un chorégraphe (...) : il invente la danse qu'il exécute (G. BOISSY, Vie en images de Serge Lifar, 1937, p. 3) :

C'est actuellement le savant Albert Aveline, qui a été un danseur extrêmement remarquable et qui est aussi un chorégraphe du premier ordre, plein d'invention, de goût, de fantaisie et d'esprit. (...) l'art de régler des ensembles complexes, avec souplesse et sûreté à la fois, de les ordonner avec une aisance apparente et une rigueur cachée, de les faire, défaire, refaire harmonieusement, art qui demande une science accomplie, marque les grands chorégraphes.
M. BRILLANT, Problèmes de la danse, 1953, p. 101, 103.
B. Celui, celle dont la profession est de danser. La petite Perdicion, chorégraphe espagnole, (...) a promis un intermède (P.-J. TOULET, Les Tendres ménages, 1904, p. 97).
P. métaph. Tout aussitôt la chorégraphe [une chatte] voluptueuse se redresse, gifle l'imprudent et s'accroupit (COLETTE, La Maison de Claudine, 1922, p. 247).
Rare [Emploi en appos. avec valeur d'adj.] Les marmottes, les chiens chorégraphes, les singes pelés (G. SAND, Histoire de ma vie, t. 4, 1855, p. 386).
Rem. On rencontre ds la docum. le subst. masc. choréauteur. Principal responsable d'un ballet, qui assume la création et la réalisation de la mise en scène. Le choréauteur se double nécessairement d'un maître de ballet, (...) lorsque je crée Icare (...), je suis un choréauteur; quand je reprends Giselle, par exemple, assurant l'exécution fidèle des pas et la mise en scène, je deviens un maître de ballet (S. LIFAR, Traité de chorégr., 1952, p. 30).

Prononc. et Orth. : []. Ds Ac. 1835-1932. Étymol. et Hist. 1786 académicien chorégraphe (Encyclop. méthod., Arts académiques, p. 393). Formé sur chorégraphie* par substitution de -graphe* à graphie. "

So the oldest reference given is 1786.

As far as I know, "choréauteur" was used only by Lifar.

And here is the entry for "chorégraphie":

"CHORÉGRAPHIE, subst. fém.
A. Vieilli. Méthode de transcription des pas et des figures de la danse.
B. Art de composer, de diriger, d'ordonner des ballets et des danses; ensemble des pas et des figures. La chorégraphie de ,,l'oiseau de feu`` était réglée par Fokine (I. STRAVINSKY, Chroniques de ma vie, 1931, p. 62) :

Rodolphe (...) improvisa une danse inconnue à toutes les chorégraphies passées. C'était un pas qu'on appelle le pas des regrets et soupirs, et dont l'originalité obtint un incroyable succès.
MURGER, Scènes de la vie de bohème, 1851, p. 161.
P. ext. Art de la danse. Prendre des leçons de chorégraphie. Il esquissa un entrechat; mais il s'arrêta subitement dans sa chorégraphie (G. LEROUX, Le Mystère de la chambre jaune, 1907, p. 47).
Rem. Cette accept. tend à supplanter couramment les autres.
Prononc. et Orth. : []. Pour la prononc. de l'initiale par [k] cf. lettre C graph. ch-. Ac. 1740-1762 et 1835-1932 donne la forme mod. Ac. 1798 admet en outre choréographie. Étymol. et Hist. 1701 (FEUILLET, La Chorégraphie ou l'Art d'écrire la danse par caractères, figures et signes démonstratifs ds GUÉRIN); 1798 chorégraphie ou choréographie (Ac.). Formé, à partir du gr. « danse » et « écrire », sur le modèle de mots terminés par -graphie (élément suff. -graphie, v. -graphe et -ie)."

So "chorégraphie" seems to be an older word (oldest reference 1701), but its first meaning was "a means of notation of dance steps" (in fact, what would be called today "dance notation").
It was in the dictionary of the Académie française as early as 1798.

Now it'd be interesting to read similar entries in an English dictionary.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rg
post Mar 6 2009, 09:46 AM
Post #9


Sapphire Circle
*******

Group: Editorial Advisor
Posts: 2,349
Joined: 29-August 01
Member No.: 848



i suppose 'ballet-master in chief' is a locution of Kirstein's - somehow 'connected' to the status Petipa had at the culmination of his career in Russia's imperial theater organization as "ballet master to his excellency the emporer" or somesuch.
just what Balanchine would have thought of the moniker devised for NYCB as he was dying is hard to say.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Amy Reusch
post Mar 6 2009, 11:53 PM
Post #10


Gold Circle
******

Group: Senior Member
Posts: 974
Joined: 9-April 99
From: Connecticut, USA
Member No.: 52



QUOTE
an art developed two hundred years ago to delineate the figures and steps of dances


... sounds more like a notator than what we now think of as a choreographer...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carbro
post Mar 7 2009, 12:01 AM
Post #11


Board Registrar
********

Group: Board Moderator
Posts: 5,500
Joined: 24-August 02
From: New York City
Member No.: 2,125



QUOTE (Amy Reusch @ Mar 6 2009, 11:53 PM) *
... sounds more like a notator than what we now think of as a choreographer...
That makes sense, considering that graph means write or written. It doesn't differentiate (or maybe it does, in its original meaning) between the author and the scribe.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vielong
post Jun 19 2009, 10:17 PM
Post #12


New Member
*

Group: New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 18-June 09
Member No.: 10,765



because he/she writes dance steps..




Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th November 2009 - 07:15 PM