I don't think I articulated my thoughts clearly. I certainly don't believe that AD's should hire minorities simply because they would diversify the company at the expense of talented white dancers...I'm only trying to pinpoint what the current problem is, and I'm far from knowing the right solution. Of course the AD's purpose is to serve the art form first and foremost...I guess what I'm trying to call into question is what that artistic vision involves and if that vision can include a diverse talent pool. I don't believe that one race, nationality, ethnicity, etc. can be inherently superior over another (although interestingly enough, Plisetsky said "No one is so naturally gifted in dancing as the Cubans"), but given the right opportunities and proper training, everyone has an equal chance at success. Is enough being done for everyone to be given that chance? The fact that there are more Caucasian ballet dancers in US companies than other races will always be a given...I don't expect there to be equal numbers of each race or more minority dancers than white, unless there is a dramatic shift in the general population. I think part of the problem in attracting a wider audience for ballet today is because people don't see a reflection of themselves or the real world in the company make-up. Whether it is artistically valid to be more reflective of reality in an art form like ballet is up for debate. Personally, I don't think the integrity of the art will be jeopardized if directors made the active effort to diversify, if there is no compromise of standards in technique, like Mel said. In the long run it will increase the quality of the product on stage.

Back to the finer points of the article, I wonder what it is about the dancers mentioned that kept them from progressing in the ballet world, without considering their skin color. I haven't seen either Aesha Ash or Alicia Graf perform, so I ask of those who have seen them: was Ash talented enough to get a promotion? would Graf's dancing style fit in with either NYCB or ABT's artistic standards?

Me too. And thanks for re-stating this. In fact, the pro-diversity posters on this long thread have never advocated that kind of discrimination. Is this something that we can all agree upon -- and then put to rest?

Considering how often these stories appear in print, I think these are excellent questions. Putting Old Fashioned's questions in the context of the larger discussion: "If these dancers were white, would their have been any problem at all fitting them a mainlline company as to training, style, potential, emploi?

Promotion of diversity, handled intelligently, would serve the art form, and such promotion doesn’t have to involve any lowering of standards.

Thank you for saying in a single sentence what I attempted to do in a whole paragraph.

One artistic director I can think of who has done a decent job of promoting diversity within the company is Ben Stevenson for Houston Ballet. Whatever one thinks of his choreography (on this international and New York-centric board, he and Texas companies are often overlooked), he elevated the status of ballet in Texas, which I think had a lot to do with bringing talents like Anderson, Li Cuxin, Li Anlin, and Carlos Acosta to the forefront.

Yes, of course you're right, that was very well put: diversity will serve the art form in the long term by, in a nutshell, significantly enhancing the talent pool. It's just a question in the short term of how we get there: by not lowering standards for the sake of diversity. Old Fashioned, thank you for clarifying what you meant earlier.

I was away all day and this discussion is very interesting.

Bart:

I read the article about the NYC Opera in the arts section on Monday, 7 May. I suppose the arts section is available online and someone might know how to find the link. I need to run out... but didn't want to think I ignored you.

Well, according to the libretto, von Rothbart is probably best owl-colored, but ABT has seen fit to make him green. I don't know of any green owls, but I imagine that they could exist in densely vegetated areas of the world.

Sorry, bart, I missed this earlier. I couldn't agree more.

I don't know Graf at all, but Aesha Ash is a fine dancer, and the only dancer within my memory to have a dance at City Ballet named for her, "Ash". I was at the very least disgruntled that they kept her in the corps.

Alicia J. Graf, in her prime at 27, is one of my favorite Balanchine ballerinas. Admittedly that is a very large group, so more specifically one of my favorite Farrell ballerinas. I've always liked the Ailey Company, and given their Ronald K. Brown dances and a couple of terrific new additions to their rep last winter, there are even choreographic reasons to go more often. But what's tripled the frequency of performances I attend are those evocations of Farrell by Ms. Graf.
The courageous off-balances, with luxuriant resolutions that seem to do for whatever music she's dancing what Balanchine does for his chosen music. Also, like Suzanne, she's an eye-dancer. Now currently NYCB has loads of ballerinas who obviously have their own individual gifts to bring Suzanne Farrell's Balanchine ballets to life (every once in a while one gets a chance: Sara Mearns in Walpugisnacht, most recently). But Ms. Graf has had plenty of Balanchine experience at DTH, creds, and also has that magic old Farrell-heads crave. There's always the matter of a newly added dancer taking up roles that a current company member aspires to. There's the counter matter that, anyway, many of these roles are staying with dancers without a breath of Farrell's perfume. And there's the third matter, that art matters. For me two out of three is enough.
There is the height issue, 5' 10". Poor, tall, Mr. Askegard is already doubly overburdoned. But there are major Farrell roles that don't require tall guys.
Art matters. But, as Mr. Macaulay of The Times reminds us, it should matter more.

And, speaking to the issue of the small African-American ballerina pool. Obviously role models are needed. Why should you make such a monumental effort, with no goal in sight? Alicia's trying: If I may borrow a Link from BT's Ailey forum:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/...rtslife-theater

I just saw Ash dance a few days ago with Lines at the Joyce. She's really lovely, and maturity has added to that. But, the brutal, honest answer is no. I remember thinking the same thing at the time. I may not have agreed always with who Martins promoted, but there was always someone there who seemed to come first. Ash was talented, but there were just too many talented girls in front of her. To me, it was bad luck and the competition.

I too saw Ash with Lines and have to agree. She is beautiful in so many ways, but probably would not have been promoted in NYCB. As stated in the NY Times article, most women remain in the corps.

Having been in a few companies in my time I can say that knowing what a director thinks of you can valuble information. You can decide to stay and fight, stay and do what ever, stay and try to guest elsewhere or move to a company that will offer you more opportunities.

Like drb, I l saw Graf often with Ailey last season and loved her. I hadn't seen her at all before this, so I can't really tell how her technique or style would hold up to the rigor of a full length classical ballet but considering her height she'd have to be the second coming of Ulanova to get a spot with ABT right now. They are struggling to find partners for the 2 tall ballerinas they already have (my observation, no inside info). If Gomes & Hallberg go down they really don't have anyone else big enough to partner them on a regular basis so adding another tall ballerina at this point wouldn't make any sense.

I have to say that while I found the Times story interesting I found the Virginia Johnson comment that Old Fashioned quoted perplexing:



I have no doubt - none whatsoever - that racism exists in ballet as it does everywhere else but I think she is just plain wrong here. First of all, I don't think ABT's subscriber base would freak out at the sight of a black Giselle or Odette or whatever. As to "being a ballet company the way you thought ballet was" - I have no idea what she means. ABT does some modern work but they're primarily a classical company and if that's what she's questioning then she's right - I doubt that they or their subscribers want to see that change, but what does that have to do with whether or not they chose to hire Alicia Graf?
Secondly, with the aging of the ballet audience I think ABT would LOVE to capitalize on the new audience a black ballerina would bring in. One only had to be at City Center a couple of seasons ago when Misty Copeland danced the lead in a Kirk Peterson piece. I guess it was a matinee cause there were lots of teenagers around me and they went wild for her (as did I). Barring injuries I think you'll be seeing her move up the ladder at ABT in the coming years. Whether she'll go all the way is another question, but I think management is pulling for her (again, just my opinion as an outside observer).

I enjoyed reading everyone's input. I'm especially curious to see Graf now; she looks so exquisite in photographs.

Aesha Ash was one of those who never made it out of the corps but nevertheless managed to attract a large fan base, much like Deanna McBrearty. That may have to do with factors other than the dancing itself, but goes to show that they could still serve as role models for aspiring young dancers. It's understandable that the competition kept her from a promotion--and that NYCB is very much sink-or-swim--but could the management have "fought" for her, so to speak? Did she have the opportunities to show herself to be more than just a lovely dancer? Was technique a hindrance?

A little of of the discussion here, but I just wanted to add a little comment about an african-american dancer I saw a film clip of recently - he was a graduate of the Vaganova School in Washington DC, and he was dancing the Le Corsaire Pas de Deux.

I was knocked out by this dancer - he was extremely limber and passionate, and had an incredible sense of balance and grace. He would perfom multiple pirouettes and come out of them in a developpe into a la seconde, while still in releve. It seemed as though he was completely off of his center, but somehow he managed to retain his balance quite effortlessly, almost as though defying gravity! He did this all throughout his performance in his jumps, tours, etc. Unlike many dancers I see nowadays, many of whom seem to be very much preoccupied with the hieght of their legs, how many turns they can squeeze in, or all things technical, he was really DANCING! Although there were in fact a few things on the techincal side he needed to work on (i.e. lazy feet in his double saut de basque during the turns around the stage), the fact that he was so lost in the actual DANCING made up for it! Not to sound to poetic, but it seemed as though he was trying to transform himself through the balletic movements into something more than just merely a ballet dancer. I have seen this Pas de deux danced many times, but he was truly something else!!!!

Unfortunately I have seen in performance and have personally known only a small few of ballet dancers in my life, so few of them take up ballet - I truly believe that people of this particular race are somehow genetically disposed to have incredible musicality and gift for movement - they were all amazing dancers, and when such a person becomes a ballet dancer, that gift for movement is exploited to the highest level. The dancer (I wish I could remember his name) I mentioned in this post is an example of this.

--Sasha Torevna

You must be referring to Danny Tidwell, who left ABT when it looked like the company was ready to heap opportunities on him. He joined Complexions, but lasted there only a year. I desperately hope he is still dancing and not lost to ballet.

There are other references to him in this thread: http://ballettalk.invisionzone.com/index.p...st&p=186824 and http://ballettalk.invisionzone.com/index.p...st&p=186915

Thanks so much for your respectful response Major Mel. I am glad this whole exchange is remaining so civil, and I think I am becoming more clear on the thrust of your comments. I suspect, ultimately we may have to agree to disagree as they say, but I would still like to follow up on a few of your points if I can.




This is a bit confusing as I don't remember ever mentioning any"silly ideas" at all, so I don't know what exactly is getting more play than it deserves. Mystifying still.


Thanks for this clarification. I asked specifically as a professional in a related field (AB, masters, and doctorate in anthropology with a geographical focus on the African American Diaspora and a theoretical focus on the diachronic processes of group identity formation), not because I was unfamiliar with the term "negritude," but precisely because I thought I was familiar with it, and this usage seemed idiosyncratic in terms of my readings and experience. Fortunately, as it happens, I know many respected professional historians (some among them have published on "negritude," the Panther Party, the history of Black Social Movements in the US, etc.) who specialize specifically in African American topics, and I will continue to follow up on this and correct any further misconceptions I may still have.



As stated previously, I prefer to seek the best experts I know when characterizing African American life and culture, and although I have enjoyed numerous chuckles when reading the satirical and insightful Boondocks, this would not be my first stop when seeking information about "groupthink" (!) or, more accurately IMO, the range of responses to the Black Panther presence either now, during the time they were most active, or in the intervening years. I suspect my attitude toward the established scholarly material specifically on African American history, life, and culture may be one of our points of disagreement.





These stories are heart-breaking, and I certainly understand how such experiences would be off-putting and very challenging for you and for the African American students. I am curious to know how you managed, as a teacher, over the years to provide support for your students who faced these obstacles. Did you have or seek access, even indirectly, to African American colleagues and/or role models who were willing and able to consult on solutions to these pedagogical dilemmas? Was this helpful at all?

It also seems some of the conventional ways of providing extra support for male ballet dancers (who would appear to share some of the exact same challenges) might be applicable to the African American (female?) students you worked with. I was wondering if any of these strategies were useful to you when trying to advise and encourage the black dancers you trained? Also, it sounds like a restraining order might have been appropriate as well as obtainable in the case of the dancer who was beaten and had her life threatened. Sadly, I know this situation, (which I would classify in a more gender-based rather than race-based way) can be very difficult to address under any circumstances.





Like the first set of "silly ideas" you mention, this hits me totally out of left field. I don't remember ever advocating this in any way, nor did I gather this impression from the original article either in intent (always hard to judge, admittedly) or explicit content (somewhat easier to pin down).

By the way, further along in this thread, I was very happy to see your candid firsthand evaluation of Aesha Ash's dancing, especially as it referred to her at the height of her neo-classical powers at NYCB. Not surprisingly, as she has struggled (by her own admission) to adjust her dancing to conform to the new Alonzo King choreographic demands, her recent appearance at the Joyce as a member of Lines Ballet would reflect most closely her developing allegience to this specific brand of contemporary choreography more accurately than it does her "technique" in some absolute sense as it would apply to any potential career she might have had at NYCB.

For those interested in at least a video version of Ash's dancing, I believe she was the dancing body double for Ms. Saldano (an actress who is not a highly trained ballet dancer) who co-starred in Center Stage. She also appears briefly in the snow scene of the Balanchine choreography Nutcracker Movie that also includes MaCauley Culkin. Both of these are widely available, and recorded during her SAB/NYCB days prior to leaving the company.

no carbro, it was another african-american dancer with a much darker complextion...

here is a link to photo of him from the Vaganova web page - http://www.ubacademy.org/Gallery1/images/A...%20Corsaire.jpg

--Sasha

That looks like Brooklyn Mack to me.

Who went to Orlando Ballet. Working with Bruce Marks.
http://www.orlandoballet.org/Templates/Pag...ooklynMack.html

I wonder if our member Ostrich got to see him guesting in Cape Town.

I had to think carefully yesterday, even though my mind was tapioca from a museum meeting which discussed HVAC (heating, ventilation and air conditioning) at the museum. My mind was such a blur of BTUs, tons, various technologies for humidity control, and other dumpling stuff (full of air, but not much to actually digest) that I couldn't answer 2dds clearly for all. Fortunately, we've had a sidebar via PM and remain quite friendly. I really believe that I have to clarify for those reading this thread where I'm coming from and to whom I write in discussing this particular activity on this thread.

First, I think Ms. Kourlas article is tendentious and, I should hope inadvertently, conducive to bigotries which are my sworn enemies. When I was writing about "silly attitudes" or such words, it was not 2dds I was directly addressing, it was the article. Admirably placed in the good, grey Times for maximum dispersal and visibility, Kourlas article is sloppy even as feature critical comment, reporting hearsay, which sounds like the people involved (but not reported by the fly on the wall), and not actually saying that they had to do with race, but "wink, wink, nudge, nudge, knowwhatImean, knowwhatImean, saynomore, saynomore." That's deceitful.

I should apologize publicly to 2dds, as I was vacillating between commenting to her points, and venting regarding the article.

By "groupthink" I'm using a contemporary vogue word which is probably most accurately used as a synonym for Conventional Wisdom. It exists in many places an many forms among many groups as some core shorthand for "the general truth". Kourlas article seems to fan up a good deal of dust, but does not provide any but the most simplistic of solutions, combined with the PC of about fifteen years ago. Ms. Kourlas article is nearly quaint in this respect.

In my citation of students who have left from peer pressure or parental influence, I haven't seen the first-cited again since they stopped taking class, but I did see the last-named again, after she broke up with her boyfriend. She still is taking class on a recreational basis, is doing well in a civic company, where she's happy and well-liked, and dancing easily as well as many dancers in some professional companies. For a "day job", she teaches mathematics at a private high school. Brainy lady, and found her happy place. Good for her, but I still want to see more of my AA kids go to work in the business.

Oddly, I think that the male student here has an advantage. They have Arthur Mitchell, Christian Holder, Gary Chryst, Rasta Thomas, and others noted above as role models and social examples. It's the girls who are hit hardest, although it is correct to say that both sexes face many of the same challenges. At the time, Raven Wilkinson or Janet Collins would have made absolutely no impact on that generation of students. It's a tough old world.

Well....the article was raising questions. I didn't agree with everything in it, but I didn't think of Kourlas as being deceitful.

A point made by Kourlas as well. And one that appears to be universally true in ballet, regardless of race.

I confess to being rather impressed by Kourlas's use of of a variety of types of evidence. So far, we have been discussing the "soft" anecdotal evidence -- the personal stories. But it's supported by quite a bit of "hard" evidence as well.

Thank you to Mel Johnson for clearing up some of those points of confusion.


This is the link to the Dance Magazine article in the so-called Race issue. This article is specifically addressing African American dancers.


http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-133008724.html

The issue of the advantage the male dancers enjoy comes up again as well as several other observations shared by posters and mentioned in the Kourlas article. When combined, these pieces present quite a range of types of evidence.

I do not find as many problems with the recent Kourlas piece as Major Mel. My feeling is much more like that of bart and dirac.

This is the article I referred to as June 2006 earlier in this revived thread (I lost a whole year along the way ). When I thought about that article, I just did not want to believe it had been 2005, I guess. We are still treading much of the same ground.

I think it is very instructive to see where we find ourselves two years later. Oakland Ballet has folded, DTH still on hiatus, Misty Copeland still in the corps, Stanton Welch still unable to hire a single female African American dancer from the hardy half dozen or so who continue to show up at the auditions (and this from a director who publically states he "would love to have more African Americans").

Maybe this is the "standards" red herring...Happily this has been laid to rest yet again on this thread. On this specific example, I know (firsthand) that African American females have continued to audition for Houston Ballet and at least one of them had been previously employed in the corps of another (albeit smaller regional) professional ballet company. Yet not one of these dancers has been able to attract the director's attention, despite his public statements. Of course, it is impossible to second guess an AD this way, but it does not support the publicly expressed wishes of a director who wants more auditioners not fewer.

I do not want to get anyone in trouble here, and this is not the hint, wink, anecdote style referred to above. This is not "deceit," but an acknowlegment of the reality that to speak plainly and name names in this tiny ballet world of ours is to take nearly impossible risks. No one with continued hopes of a career is going to do this. Thus, I suspect certain voices will remain muted in any discussion of this sort. With so few African American female dancers out there, that visibility is very frightening in a profession where reputation and connections are vital.

In the current climate, eventually, the ranks of these dancers will thin out, no matter how intrepid. Whatever talents they may have possessed will never be available as emerging or as established mature artists. This does not serve the best interests of either these dancers or the world of ballet generally. Personally, I don't need to wait for the missing swans to testify and name names before trying to come up with remedies.

At every step along the way from the time these young black dancers first enter the studio, to the moment they retire and seek a career transition, there are points of opportunity where we can work hard to stem the attrition rate, to inspire and encourage potential talent. For example, what might Tai Jimenez or Lauren Anderson have to offer (based on their experience as retired principal dancers), to help companies and schools attract, train, retain, promote, and hire aspiring dancers? Maybe they are already in huge demand as consultants or advisors and I just don't know about it. If no one is beating down their doors, IMO it might be an excellent idea. Debbie Allen also started out in ballet; has anyone solicited her expert opinion? Ditto Sandra Organ, also in Houston. Her solution was to start her own company, an experience that also might be very informative. Virginia Johnson (editor of Pointe Magazine) would be another obvious source of information and support. Similarly, has anyone checked in with an organization like the IABD (is this even a recognizable acronym for us at Ballet Talk?)

I am throwing this out not to overburden these women (and organizations). Of course, I think they should dictate for themselves exactly when, where, and how much they want to be involved in such efforts, and--most important--I think they should be treated (and compensated) just like any other expert consultants. I am simply suggesting some new ways to do a better job at efforts to be more inclusive of African American female ballet dancers. We do not always need to seek male dancers and directors as a first choice (even if they are African American); we do not need to consult only modern or non-ballet companies (no harm intended here--I am just suggesting we remember to seek ballet expertise rather than continually heading to Alvin Ailey as exquisite as they may be). In an alternate approach, how about checking in with Ben Stevenson (who seems to have hired and/or trained the majority of successful African American female ballet dancers outside DTH.) Maybe he could explain to other artistic directors what inspired/enabled him to make the choices he did.

We need to do more than make public statements of what we would love to do and stick with what we will and can do; we need to find ways to actually do something other than conduct business as usual (which predictably produces the same predictable results). Standards can be maintained; we all know there are more talented dancers out there (of all shades) than there are positions. Providing extra encouragement to any dancer that has something special (in this case it would be the determination and courage it takes IMHO to simply persevere as an accomplished African American female dancer) has always been a potentially successful strategy. In this case, it also seems to require something special on the part of those who make the decisions (to hire and fire, to train and support, admit or deny, retain or release, to attend or stay home).

I wonder what is the difference between those few who are able to make these different decisions, and the vast majority who are not. I propose we look at the limited successes and emulate those. Maybe this belongs in the inclusion thread? ? I defer to the judgment of the moderators here.


My overriding purpose is to find concrete ways to make specific positive changes that will prevent us from losing the gifts of the aspiring African American dancers out there. This echoes the sentiment of Mel Johnson



as well as the observations of dirac and Oldfashioned



If it's "broke," let's find out from those in a position to know "how to fix it"!

If you're interested in seeing where he is now, tune into So You Think You Can Dance. I kind of feel dirty watching this show.

Currently the judges are unsure about keeping Danny and think his ego is too big. This, coming from a tv producer who failed to make it as a professional dancer and former choreographer for The Muppets, a has-been championship ballroom dancer, and a choreographer for such notables as Britney Spears and N'Sync.

Talk about mixed emotions! I should be happy that I can now see him, but I'm sad that his muse has led him down this dubious path.

Still, my inner voice is screaming, "Go, Danny!"

Thanks for the heads up, OF! And I'll step into the shower after you're done.

Dd trained at a large well-known school associated with a professional company for several years. During that time the school bent over backwards to attract, train and retain minority students. From year 1 her class was pretty racially diverse, reflecting the community: white, asian, black, hispanic and other minorities. The longer she remained in the school, the more students dropped out, usually because, pick one: it was getting harder or because they were no longer interested, wanted to do another type of dance, didn't have the ballet body: short legs, long torso, did not have the feet for pointe, just didn't like it and had been doing it for their moms to begin with. Dd is the only student from her class still studying ballet. She is minority, but not AA, so it's not so obvious, but she is a minority nonetheless. There are NO ballet dancers or students at any of the schools she has attended of her ethnicity. She has NO professional role models of her ethnicity to look up to, male or female. But she does have professional dancers she looks up to. They may not look like her, but she sees in them something share: the artist within. She loved being a student at the company school but ultimately left because she felt she needed to get the level of training provided to ballet students in Europe and Russia if she was to become a ballet dancer: the school's program is typical of that provided in the US, hours of training at the advanced level are 12-14 hours per week. But in Russia, for instance, (or at CPYB, in PA), students her age train many more hours per week and therefore are stronger technically. The quote about the quality of training in the US should not be dismissed lightly. Without high quality training, you will not be a competitive dancer. If the dancer is not competitive, they won't pass the audition.

A few quick thoughts--

#1-I wonder if Danny Tidwell was attracted to "So You Think You Can Dance" by the pull of his muse, or pushed by his (possibly unsatisfactory) range of alternative choices?

#2-Whether training inside or outside the United States, if dancers of color (even AA, the original recent thread discussion of the "black swans") are not visibly and noticabley distinct, they would have a greater opportunity to 'blend in' and would not face the same issues in the admittedly 'lookist' world of ballet where appearance is so important and capricious (subjective and fickle, but not arbitrary or random) for all dancers. The concern might not exist in the same way as it does for visibly non-traditional dancers.

#3-I would also relate this question back to others raised on this thread--if dancers of color need to be twice as good to get half as far (as several have asserted on this thread), maybe they should all be training in Europe or Russia. It would seem they need every advantage.

#4-Does anyone know how these diversity issues play out in other countries? Is there the same lack of diversity (missing swans, for ex.) at all levels, and is there the same problem retaining dancers of color during training? By the way, at the studio that "bent over backwards" with so little success, who decided on the methods of retaining dancers? I was just wondering could some of the attrition be attributed to business as usual methods? I would base my strategy on what had worked for dancers (like the consultants I mentioned earlier) who did manage to follow through to careers.

#4-Do more hours automatically equal better training? Also do the Europeans and Russians train more at later stages and less at the early stages when so many dancers here (not just minority dancers) are already burning out?

I also was excited to see a professional company associated school making apparently strenuous (albeit ineffective) efforts to attract and retain a diverse group of students.

Unsatisfactory? He was with ABT, often dancing soloist roles although he left before he could be promoted. Doesn't sound so unsatisfactory to me! He may have found the prospect of a career at ABT unsatisfactory given the fact that he is quite talented at many forms of dance, but from a purely balletic standpoint, it doesn't get much better than that.

More hours do not necessarily equal better training; however, at schools with good training one usually finds the students dancing more often. It really comes down to the quality of the teaching, but anything less than 90-minute classes 5-6 days/week usually indicates a school that is not serious about ballet.

I don't have experience with a broad range of European schools, but at the big academies in Europe (i.e., Vaganova, Bolshoi, Royal Danish, Royal, and Paris Opéra) the students are in ballet class for 90 minutes 5 days/week starting from day one. This is not the case at SAB and most other schools in the US. I don't know whether there is a correlation between these schedules and burnout--I would say it is perhaps a case of there being more than one way to (forgive the inelegant expression) skin a cat.

Hans, I certainly agree with you about ABT being 'top of the line;' the reason I say possibly unsatisfactory, is I don't know why he didn't wait for the solost roles to ripen into a solist promotion. Maybe he knew something we don't know. I find it hard to believe he did not have a conversation with the powers that be prior to deciding to leave ABT. As noted above, Complexions did not work out either. Baffling.

On the hours thing, I am aware of minimum standards for pre-pro in the US, and was just observing it's not an automatic formula more hours=better training. I thought from other threads here and on our sister board, that there were some significant differences by age in hours and intensity of training between US and schools outside the US. One of the differences I thought was "day one" being a later age than some US schools.

By the way I am unaccountably fond of inelegant expressions , including the particular one you use (even though I consider myself a friend of all felines! ).

I think that is the case at some schools in Europe, although I don't know for sure how universally it applies to all children. For example, at the Vaganova Academy, in the past vrsfanatic has mentioned that the students generally attend a sort of pre-ballet program which involves floor exercises, learning how to point their feet, straighten their knees, do battement tendu, &c (not sure how many times/week this is). Then at age 10 some of them are taken into the Vaganova Academy proper, and they begin real ballet classes. In other countries, students might begin studying ballet or pre-ballet at age 8 at a local studio and then audition at age 10 for a larger academy where they have class 5x/week.

By the way, I should qualify my statement above that "anything less than 90-minute classes 5-6 days/week usually indicates a school that is not serious about ballet" to "anything less than 90-minute classes 5-6 days/week at an intermediate/advanced level in the US usually indicates a school that is not serious about ballet."

But now we have gone rather far I can start a thread for this over on BT4D.

Thanks Hans for the follow up, and to bring this back on track, I have sometimes observed that dancers of color, particularly AA, are advised to try their luck in Europe. This environment is described as one where they are more likely to be judged on their merits. Never having been to Europe, I have no idea how valid this may be. The existence of companies like "Ballet Black" suggests there may be similar obstacles in Europe comparable to those in the US. Does anyone have first hand information on this race, culture, and ballet issue outside the US context?

The only thing I can say is that during my time at Rudra (a little less than a year), both the company and school were, while quite international, also extremely (but not exclusively) white. I don't know how that may have changed by now or what the situation may be like at other institutions.

This is a controversial topic. Trying to answer to the "why" questions , trying to talk about "real facts" or trying to come up with percentages or numbers can be, besides dangerous in terms of accuracy, harsh and/or offensive. MY PERSONAL OPINION in regard of this topic is that it is ALWAYS possible to overcome racial issues in favor of culture, good technique and diversity. Growing up watching Ballet Nacional de Cuba's totally racially mixed company was wonderful. Not only did i see Carlos Acosta developing all the way to finally become a premier dancer . Other black dancers names in leading positions from back then come to my mind (Caridad Martinez, Catherine Suaznabar and so on), so yes, i guess it can be strange for some to see no racial diversity in some companies.

Reading Ruth Sunderland's article about Carlos Acosta, i recalled this old thread, and i thought it would be interesting to post this anecdote...
"In his memoir, No Way Home, he -(Acosta)-recalls an instance, after he had just joined the Royal Ballet, when he got talking to an elegant black man in a bar, who told him that because of his colour, the company had probably brought him over to play the jester. Acosta flew into a rage and replied: 'I only dance principal roles. I am Romeo, I am Siegfried... if there aren't any black Romeos, I'll be the first."

I am sorry to bring up an old topic, I wanted to post this earlier, but could not find a newslink to my information and did not want to post prematurely.

But regarding african americans in Europe - Celine Gittens is a Trinidad Canadian (close enough?!) who was hired at 17 to the Birmingham Royal Ballet and has been cast (and reviewed) very well since she arrived ... Arabian soloist in the first Nut, a lead pdd in "Nine Sinatra Songs" and now Odette / Odile in their February Swan Lake. (As posted in the newsletter of her old studio, Goh Ballet http://www.gohballet.com/fall2007.htm and here as well http://www3.telus.net/lesbill/newsletter.html). She also had an article "Celine Gittens: A Dancer's Diary" by Celine Gittens in the Summer 2007 issue of Dance International http://www.danceinternational.org/archive/summer2007.html

Anyway, a major coup (or several) for any barely 19 year old, but also certainly good news for people looking at african women in ballet in Europe.

Thank you for that report, CeC -- and for the very interesting links. I don't think the Dance International piece is online at present. The link to gohballet.com mentions that she won the Gold medal at the Genee competition in 2005.

It's been a rapid and most impressive ascent for this very young dancer. Definitely a name -- and career -- to follow. Congratulations.

We have several members who review the BRB occasionally. I hope that one or more will be able to bring us more news and impessions about Ms. Gittens' performances. (Postisng this in the Review thread or Dancers thread would most likely get the biggest number of readers.).

I had the opposite experience of minorities in the USA. I was the minority when I danced in Tokyo. I had very blonde hair when younger, and considering that everyone but the usual guest performers was either Asian generally or Japanese specifically, I usually stood out. This helped my career because I was more likely to get demi-soloist, or the occasional soloist role (I did A LOT of fairies, sylphs,etc.etc.), than be relegated to corps continually. I have heard since, that they are not so amenable to hiring dancers who don't "blend" as well. But during my 3 years there, the company administrators & instructors were v. kind, the older dancers friendly, and the younger dancers tolerant if not exactly friendly. Ballet directions were still in french, and my japanese language skills improved immensely every time I negotiated the 3 trains and Shinjuku to get to/from home. I'm not sure if my salary was more or less than anyone else as my parents did the negotiating, and I just signed where they told me to.

RE: class schedules. I started age 4. Two years later classes were 3x/wk-60+ minutes each. By age nine 90mins class- 4-6 days/wk. Professionally: Two 90-min. classes back to back, M-F (with maybe an hour or two of rehearsal for whatever afterwards on alternating nights.), Sat. one 90+min class, and 4-6hrs rehearsal. Sundays off unless emergency. Of course when we were performing, that schedule changed somewhat.

Glad to see this thread is still active and open. I reviewed the many posts and was alternately encouraged and dismayed both by what happened then and where we are now. I hope we all continue to think about these inequities in as clear-sighted, creative, and compassionate a way as possible.

I also hope everyone continues to notice that the lack of diversity has remained fairly constant, and to continue to ask and think about why this has changed so little, and if we are happy with that state of affairs. If the only faces of color you see are deployed as Arabian in Nutcracker--I suggest, that is not enough.

Happy holidays to everyone and here's to finding an accomplished African American Sugar Plum Fairy on many more stages in the coming years.

For classical / story ballet there remains the notion that the dancers must represent the race of the characters... such a white girl for Juliette etc. It's a silly notion to cling to in ballet because ballet is more "illusion" and metaphor than anything coming close to resembling an historical presentation. Look at the ones which are pure fantasy such as Nut and Swan and Beauty, just to mention a few. So why can't we see black dancers in ANY of these roles? I think it comes down to a bit of prejudice and pandering to subconscious (quasi racist) expectations of the audience.

And then you have the cultural divide out there. There is a strong movement to embrace one's own historical heritage and culture. Nothing wrong with that, but it does tend to prevent blacks from venturing into ballet because it is perceived as part of white European culture. Ironically there seems to be a fair amount of Asians who embrace European culture. But I suppose this may be related to the fact that Asians have long established cultures and the young feel freer to embrace European culture and do not feel that they have been oppressed by Europeans (perhaps) as much a blacks do.

Thankfully, some talented dancers seem to embrace ballet regardless of all the above and any other institutional pressure (right on Danny Tidwell and Misty Copeland!). They and others need to be embrace by the ballet establishment/culture and the black culture. Blacks certainly have demonstrated that they can dance and have innovated so much to boot.

Amazing that the color of one's skin has so much "baggage" in the 21st century. That's a crying shame.

I think the new film on Jock Soto speaks directly to the diversity discussion that's part of this thread, as outlined in the passage below from the recent NY Times article on it by C. La Rocco:

"He is determined to seek out young dancers from diverse backgrounds, and he sees the film as outreach: for American Indian children whose culture often encourages them to stay close to home, and for youngsters everywhere struggling with their homosexuality."

It's awesome to see him take this on, as an individual artist and as a representative of a major US school and company.

Great statement, SanderO. I totally agree. Still, i feel that traditionally- (and wrongly)-ballet gives black dancers less access to certain roles than , let's say, opera to black singers ,despite of the fact that physical and dramatic skills should be the main points to take in consideration when picking lead performers-(or performers in general)-in both art forms...

Well said SanderO; I have always thought that only the appropriate talent should apply when casting roles but in the past I have heard audience members commenting on the fact that Juliet was being danced by a Japanese dancer (for example). The irony being that Northern Ballet Theatre's most celebrated Juliet is the recently retired Chiaki Nagao, who became synonymous in the role.

Maybe i'm wrong, but it always occured to me that for a lot of people, particulary for those for which ballet is resumed to the Nutcracker once a year, -IF- or just a couple of ballet experiences in a lifetime, they expect the spectacle to fallow the films/theater plays/(even Brodway?) role casting pattern, which,sometimes-(and wrongly)- relays more on the racial context of the characters.

Perfect! i think this is the key for a lot of generalized confussion and a great concept for we can justify a lot of , otherwise, unjustifiable facts of ballet. So then, we know than Zefirelli's R&J can't be analized from the same perspective, regarding racial issues on the leading roles than, let's say, Martins' version for ballet. Also, this concept closes lots of controversies regarding not also race, but age and dancing, without even thinking of terms like "ageism" . Now , accepting the "Illusional" perspective, we can have a Giselle double the age than her Albretch (Alonso/Vasiliev), a young maid character played by an aged ballerina being the object of affection of her young partners, (the recent Fracci's role), or my favorite Alonso-after-Fedorova all-adults production of the "Nutcracker" without thinking about how wrong can be having grown dancers playing children-(or "trying to act like children"). At the end...it's all a fantasy...an "ilussion"!!! (Thank you SanderO for putting it so clear!)

From Orlando Patterson's review of The Race Card by Richard Thompson Ford, in today's NY Times Book Review:

"[Ford] writes that framing antifat discrimination as a civil rights issue is 'an uncomfortable stretch.' The rejection of a fat but fit and qualified woman for a job as a Jazzercise instructor in San Francisco was defensible, he claims, on the grounds that the company advertises itself as a weight-loss organization: 'Asking Jazzercise to hire fat instructors is not like asking a lunch counter to hire blacks; it's more like asking a cosmetics company to hire models with severe acne.' Furthermore, he says, fat people can change themselves in ways blacks cannot, there is general agreement that being overweight is undesirable and unhealthy, and no significant fat identity movement exists. Whoops! Overweight Americans, far more numerous than blacks, can point to medical evidence that fatness is partly genetic, to sociological findings that they suffer job discrimination and to a growing fat-acceptance movement led by feisty bloggers in the 'fatosphere.'
And consider this: The great choreographer George Balanchine held that a ballerina's skin should be the color of a peeled apple, a view shared by many in ballet circles. I can see no difference between Ford's defense of Jazzercise's action and an artistic director's refusal to hire a talented black ballerina because ballerinas are expected to be white, thin and flat everywhere. Justice sometimes requires the rehabilitation of standards unfairly naturalized by convention."

I hope there's enough context here to make sense.
(Complete review at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/books/re...mp;oref=slogin)
Overall, Patterson praises Ford's willingness to take on egregious cases of "playing the race card"; the quoted passage comes in a section where Patterson identifies parts of Ford's argument that don't work so well. It should be troubling that Patterson can draw on ballet's whiteness so easily as an example of unreformed racism.

Thanks, Ray, for that link. Although I want to take more time to read the review, you reminded me about a few comments I was intending to post when I first found them in the FAll 2007 issue of Ballet Review.

The speaker is Raven Wilkinson, the very gifted African American ballet dancer who performed with Ballet Russe in the 50s and the Dutch National Ballet in the 1960s and 70s:
Different cultures -- coming from different historical experiences and value systems -- behave differently. It is useful for Americans to learn about alternatives to the way we habitually think about -- and universalize -- race and color. As one who would be quite delighted to watch a black Juliet (or Romeo) in a mixed or even all-white cast, I can only imagine how liberating this experience in the Netherlands must have been for Wilkinson, and how sad that she had to travel thousands of miles from home to find it.

By the way, the entire interview with Wilkinson is worth seeking out on many levels. Only a relatively small part has to do with racial matters. The rest has to do .... as it always would in a perfect world .... with BALLET !

["A conversation with Raven Wilkinson," Michael Langlois, Ballet Review, Fall 2007]

Ultimately it comes down to who hires... in Washington Ballet (D.C.) we have Black, Hispanic, Asian dancers... I think that when choreographers / artistic directors, like Choo San Goh or Septime Webre, are comfortable with multiple cultures, then they are more likely to be clued in to great potential hires, just because they know where those applicants are coming from. In other words, it's not just who you (as a dancer) know, it's (even more important) who knows you!

Mike Gunther hints that the AD or some one in management who is non white male would be more open to non white casting or more accurately hiring.

This seems to mean that the "racism" that we may see, assuming it's there, is because of top down "prejudice". That's troubling, isn't it (if true)?

Raven Wilkinson's strength of character and pride in her own identity is striking throughout the Ballet Review interview Bart mentions. I was especially moved by the moment of consciousness raising she relates in regards to auditioning for Eugene Loring for a ballet he was doing for Joffrey Ballet. Loring expected her to be familar with "modern movement," but, no, she told him,


Then after waiting several weeks to hear if she'd been selected, she inquired of Joffrey himself, telling him she needed to know because she had an upcoming chance to dance in Europe.



I'm both moved by Wilkinson's ordeal and touched by the well-meaning Joffrey's moment of revelation.

Well the AD has to choose, that's his or her job, and we all tend to love most and choose most often what we know best. Sometimes "prejudice" is just limited experience. In the interest of consciousness raising and equal opportunity in ballet, it might be best to avoid alienating people we don't know by condemning their taste as racist.