perky
Aug 22 2006, 11:39 AM
This question applies to both watchers and doers. There are of course many famous cat lovers in ballet. Balanchine is probably the most famous. Back in the late sixties Suzanne Farrell traveled to Belgium to dance with Bejart with I believe 3or 4 cats. What a brave, brave woman!! Are there any famous ballet dog lovers?
I myself have one cat, a bipolar, passive-aggresive neurotic massive ball of fur, whom I love to pieces. Cat or dog for the rest of the Ballet Talkers?
Kate B
Aug 22 2006, 11:53 AM
I'm a cat person, for sure. I've had 2 cats in my lifetime - a tough ole boy black cat who died recently aged nearly 20, and my current rescue cat who's a tiny tabby. She's 10 years old but she looks like a kitten and she always has a cold.
This is a small sample size, but I'm willing to bet that most of us prefer cats to dogs... There are lots of nice cats in ballets (I can't think of any apart from Puss in Boots, but go with me please!) but I can't think of any graceful dogs.
canbelto
Aug 22 2006, 12:21 PM
ALthough I do have a (very disagreeable) cat, I'm a dog person. And I think dogs exhibit many of the traits of dancers -- loyalty, persistence, work ethic, and ability to enduring pain and suffering. Also, dogs are very emotional, with very expressive faces, which I think is often the hallmark of a great dancer.
bart
Aug 22 2006, 12:24 PM
Our household is made kinder, wiser, and more graceful by the presence of one dog

, one cat.
As to ballets, there's Andree Howard's "Lady into Fox," but to my knowledge there is no "Lady into Fox Hound."
Robbins' "The Small House of Uncle Thomas," for King and I, has blood hounds.
Northern Ballet Theater has a version of "Peter Pan" which includes a dancer role for the dog, Nana. Link:
http://www.northernballettheatre.co.uk/peterpan.html
carbro
Aug 22 2006, 12:58 PM
Jerry Robbins was a dog lover. My dog, Loretta, was one beneficiary of a Robbins display of unbridled affection. The previous evening, Robbins had been a Jeopardy clue, but I knew better than to intrude on his moment with bliss with the four-legger to let him know. Loretta's Central Park playgroup included dogs who dragged their ABT humans along, inclulding V.Barbee and L. Ketterndahl, D. Radojevic, A. McKerrow and J. Gardner.
Baryshnikov has had dogs, but I don't know about cats. In Elusive Muse, we see Suzanne walking her two dogs. Peter and Darci have had dogs. Christine Redpath was often seen walking a golden retriever. Kipling Houston had a beautiful Malamute. I used to see Samantha Allen walking a doggie. Katey Tracey has a little ball of black fur. DanceMagazine's recent piece on Gelsey showed her in the company of canines. That's just off the top of my head.
I thoroughly agree with canbelto's comparison of dogs to dancers. They work like dogs in order to look like cats!
canbelto
Aug 22 2006, 01:27 PM
QUOTE (carbro @ Aug 22 2006, 05:58 PM)

I thoroughly agree with canbelto's comparison of dogs to dancers. They work like dogs in order to look like cats!

What a great assessment! So true! I also think that there are 'dog' dancers and then there are 'cat' dancers. The dog dancers hold nothing back. They are always dancing 200%. They are an emotional tour-de-force. They often push the limits of good taste and form. Critics call them less graceful, perhaps more vulgar, undisciplined. Their fans love their heart-on-sleeves style. Dog dancers: Maya Plisetskaya, Rudolf Nureyev, Lynn Seymour, Irek Mukhamedov, Carlos Acosta, Diana Vishneva.
Then there are the cat dancers. They are a bit aloof and mischevious, and dance with a graceful perfection that is awe-inspiring. Cat dancers: Irina Kolpakova, Mikhail Baryshnikov, Suzanne Farrell, Svetlana Zakharova, Manuel Legris.
To get back on topic, I've seen Marie-Agnes Gillot photographed with her two dachsunds.
bart
Aug 22 2006, 01:47 PM
QUOTE (canbelto @ Aug 22 2006, 01:21 PM)

Also, dogs are very emotional, with very expressive faces, which I think is often the hallmark of a great dancer
Preferably without letting their tongues hang out.
QUOTE (canbelto @ Aug 22 2006, 02:27 PM)

The dog dancers hold nothing back. They are always dancing 200%. They are an emotional tour-de-force. They often push the limits of good taste and form. Critics call them less graceful, perhaps more vulgar, undisciplined. Their fans love their heart-on-sleeves style. [....]
Then there are the cat dancers. They are a bit aloof and mischevious, and dance with a graceful perfection that is awe-inspiring.
I love these categories.

And your examples are right-on. They fit quite well with Robert Greskovic's distinction between Apollonians (cat) and Dionysians (dog).
I know the typology of dog-dancer and cat-dancer will be with me when the perfomance season begins in this area and I can start looking at live dancers on stage. Thanks, canbelto.
perky
Aug 22 2006, 02:03 PM
QUOTE (canbelto @ Aug 22 2006, 12:27 PM)

What a great assessment! So true! I also think that there are 'dog' dancers and then there are 'cat' dancers. The dog dancers hold nothing back. They are always dancing 200%. They are an emotional tour-de-force. They often push the limits of good taste and form. Critics call them less graceful, perhaps more vulgar, undisciplined. Their fans love their heart-on-sleeves style. Dog dancers: Maya Plisetskaya, Rudolf Nureyev, Lynn Seymour, Irek Mukhamedov, Carlos Acosta, Diana Vishneva.
Then there are the cat dancers. They are a bit aloof and mischevious, and dance with a graceful perfection that is awe-inspiring. Cat dancers: Irina Kolpakova, Mikhail Baryshnikov, Suzanne Farrell, Svetlana Zakharova, Manuel Legris.
Ooohh Canbelto! I love your dancer distinctions!
Allegra Kent, very much a cat dancer.
Farrell Fan
Aug 22 2006, 02:11 PM
Suzanne Farrell may be a cat dancer, but she is also a dog person. Her greeting cards to me in recent years came from her and her dog Tex.
canbelto
Aug 22 2006, 02:21 PM
Watching that Sleeping Beauty film, it occurred to me that Alla Sizova and Yuri Soloviev were like golden retrievers. Blonde, beautiful, sunny, radiating warmth, and extremely athletic.
Wendy Whelan: very much a cat dancer. Long, sinewy, with a stony inscrutable face. Watch her twist and turn and marvel.
Amy'sMom
Aug 22 2006, 02:41 PM
**Meow!!**
pmeja
Aug 22 2006, 02:45 PM
*** Woof!!!! ****
drb
Aug 22 2006, 02:58 PM
QUOTE (canbelto @ Aug 22 2006, 02:27 PM)

Dog dancers: Maya Plisetskaya, Rudolf Nureyev, Lynn Seymour, Irek Mukhamedov, Carlos Acosta, Diana Vishneva.
Right on with Diana Vishneva, and I've seen her with a mid-sized white dog. Yet, just as Farrell Fan pointed out, cat dancer Suzanne (actually I think Farrell is both, and more; well, everything) can like dogs, and Diana's favorite partner is cat-like Vladimir Malakhov.
papeetepatrick
Aug 22 2006, 05:03 PM
QUOTE (canbelto @ Aug 22 2006, 03:21 PM)

Watching that Sleeping Beauty film, it occurred to me that Alla Sizova and Yuri Soloviev were like golden retrievers. Blonde, beautiful, sunny, radiating warmth, and extremely athletic.
I like the thoughts, but could never see Alla Sizova as anything but the most beautiful cat in the Sleeping Beauty film--not the aloof sort of cat,though;rather one who could live with a lovely big poodle or maybe, as here, M. Soloviev, who is more akin to your golden retriever to me. But I'm a cat person, thinking they are the most beautiful things in the world, if not always the nicest. Mlle. Sizova is perhaps the prettiest ballerina I've ever laid eyes on, quite apart from the beauty of her dancing--I mean I can easily see her in spring collections at Givenchy or something--and so I have no choice but to see that delicate smile as catlike. She is just a bloody
knockout.I find Nureyev as well as much more catlike than doglike, and this has to do with the sly movement that he can do even though he's got that generous look, too. Anyway, not that much like either one, more horselike.
Makarova very catlike of the tough-charmer sort that would win prizes at Madison Square Garden Cat Show. McBride also very catlike of the sweetest sort of feline.
dirac
Aug 22 2006, 05:48 PM
QUOTE (papeetepatrick @ Aug 22 2006, 10:03 PM)

I find Nureyev as well as much more catlike than doglike, and this has to do with the sly movement that he can do even though he's got that generous look, too. Anyway, not that much like either one, more horselike.
Nureyev was a panther. Also, dogs are pack animals, and RN was never a member of any pack, not even back home.
Although Fonteyn also owned dogs from time to time, she was a Cat Woman, in more senses than one, like Vivien Leigh -- both collected cat figurines.
Speaking for myself, I like dogs just fine, except they require a great deal of attention and entertaining and although some can be left alone it is still not good for them, and I can't commit to that much time. I have two kitties, a skittish but sweet calico cat and a little gray tabby who is the mistress of all she surveys and has the local dogs terrified.
as a 'dog person' i was amused to read a passage in kavanagh's ashton biog - SECRET MUSES - that recounts how ashton felt, as a non-cat person, that he was continually surrounded by people - ballet people - who ADORED cats, and how as a consequence he felt oppressed and outnumberd on that account.
i read it aloud w/ relish on the phone as soon as came across to a huge 'cat person' i know, and who also adores ashton, and she noted how it was just like me to pick that passage out and read it to her.
we had a good laugh. she still adores cats (w/ no comment from me).
canbelto
Aug 22 2006, 08:48 PM
Nureyev in the last years of his life had a Rottweiler named Soloria. It was originally Solor, but then Nureyev found out that he was a she, so she became Soloria. Of course this was in tribute to Nureyev's favorite ballet and the reconstruction that he had been so feverishly preparing of La Bayadere.
And even though Fonteyn called him a "young lion" I stand by my conviction that Nureyev was the ultimate "dog" dancer. His tongue even hung out sometimes.
And to take this metaphor further, let's take a look:
My catIrina Dvorovenko, a cat dancerSuzanne Farrell, a cat dancerMy dogDiana Vishneva, a dog dancerRudolf Nureyev, dog dancer
missvjc420
Aug 23 2006, 12:42 AM
I grew up with birds and dogs- more of a bird person. I think cats are ok, but am highly allergic. I guess I would be more of a dog type dancer, although I have had my feline moments.
papeetepatrick
Aug 23 2006, 01:02 AM
I like some dogs very much, but I see from this discussion that, although not all ballet dancers remind me of cats, I haven't ever thought even one reminded me of a dog--some other animals besides cats, but never dogs. What dancers own as pets is a celeb sort of thing, probably would interest me only if one owned something really exotic like a serval or terrible snake.
zerbinetta
Aug 23 2006, 01:20 AM
I'm a cat person married to a cat person. Our longest living cat, Natasha (no prizes for guessing after whom she was named) lived until her 23rd birthday.
I have learned to purr, growl & hiss. This comes in handy from time to time.
But there have been doggies who have won my heart, including Carbro's lovely, lollopng, lovable & looney Loretta. One of a kind.
Darci had a cat and a mynah bird prior to Peter.
I don't see Acosta as a dog type dancer at all. Stalking, prancing, darting, leaping .. especially leaping. He is usually described as pantherine & I must agree.
carbro
Aug 23 2006, 01:34 AM
QUOTE (zerbinetta @ Aug 23 2006, 02:20 AM)

But there have been doggies who have won my heart, including Carbro's lovely, lollopng, lovable & looney Loretta. One of a kind.
Thank you so much, zerbinetta! Such a sweet, accurate (if I may say) and alliterative depiction .
Loretta was a dog, but she was as much a cat person as anyone I know. She memorized all the windows and storefronts where she'd ever seen a cat, and several times a week made the rounds of them -- the 70-minute (on a good day) kitty tour. Never showed much interest in ballet, though.
bart
Aug 30 2006, 08:24 AM
Balanchine on Farrell, the "cat dancer":
QUOTE
She has speed, alertness, understanding. Her muscles are flexible. She responds beautifully. It is like the cat family. There are lions and tigers, pumas and leopards, and they are all difdferent. Why? It is the body's chemistry. Suzanne is a cheetah, the fastest. Others are lions, slow and lumbering. Yes, Suzanne is a cheetah."
I guess you might also include the famous off-centeredness and risk-taking as "cat-like" too. Plus the efficient and often disguised preparations for jumps and turns.
And cats always end up on the feet.
Estelle
Aug 30 2006, 07:19 PM
I'm definitely a cat person (always a bit too like to lose much time trying to pet any cat I see in the street, unfortunately they generally stare at me and then run away frightened...), the proud owner (I'd better say "servant") of a small black and white cat called Venise (and my parents had three cat, a male tabby called Fripounet who unfortunately ran away when he was only 1 year old, and later successively two cats who were wandering in the neighborhood, good old female yellow-bellied tabby Marcel and later hot tempered female calico Mimile- yes they were female but with male names, go figure...) My husband is more of a dog person and loves basset hounds, but such dogs require more room and exercise that what we could offer now, so he just collects basset hound related items- and now that he has Venise he has become almost as crazy about cats as myself.
That's not really ballet, but Venise's jumping accomplishments can be admired there:
http://www.bruhat.net/jumping-venise.mpgQUOTE (canbelto @ Aug 22 2006, 08:27 PM)

To get back on topic, I've seen Marie-Agnes Gillot photographed with her two dachsunds.
Yes indeed, I remember seeing her with them at the POB's "entrée des artistes". I remember some other dancers had small dogs, one of them travelled in a bag on its owner's motorbike but I can't remember which dancers...
In Mannoni's "Les étoiles de l'Opéra de Paris" published in the early 1990s, there are two beautiful photos of Noëlla Pontois with a little dog (I don't know which kind of dog, but it seems to be small, gey and hairy- and it's called "Snouf") by Marc Badran, she looks so joyful and elegant on those photographs... Patrick Dupond mentioned in an interview that his two small dogs helped him when he had to recover from a car accident a few years ago.
And Sylvie Guillem recently mentioned on her own web site that she had a cat.
Helene
Aug 30 2006, 07:26 PM
It looks like Venise is an heir of Mourka, George Balanchine's cat.
ViolinConcerto
Aug 30 2006, 08:30 PM
QUOTE (Estelle @ Aug 30 2006, 08:19 PM)

Venise's jumping accomplishments can be admired there:
http://www.bruhat.net/jumping-venise.mpgIt looks to me as if Estelle is using what in the US is called a "Cat Dancer," and Venise certainly is a Cat Dancer!
I am a cat person, with two in my present, many, many in my past, and I don't know about the future. I also just loved Canbelto's little orange cat.
Peter and Darci have four dogs at the moment, or else Darci was moonlighting as a dog walker on Broadway one evening last season. Many other NYCB dancers have had pups: Pascal had a sweet little beagle named Heidi, the late Wolfe Buchner, who managed the gift shop had a little black and white cocker spaniel named "Oreo," Peter Stark had a terrier just like Toto, and her name was Marilyn. I think that once Peter and Susan Hendl started bringing their retrievers backstage, the floodgates opened. I hope not literally.
In terms of Cats in ballets, most recently at NYCB, Wendy's role in "Musagete," was said to be Mourka. (Sorry but the choreographer's name just slipped.)
koshka
Aug 30 2006, 08:47 PM
Two tidbits:
In Sylvie Guillem's book "Invitation," there is a rather hilarious juxtaposition of a two-page spread of Sylvie stretching followed by a two-page spread of a cat lazing.
...and how can a thread like this be without a mention of
Dancing With Cats?
ViolinConcerto
Aug 30 2006, 10:25 PM
QUOTE (koshka @ Aug 30 2006, 09:47 PM)

Two tidbits:
In Sylvie Guillem's book "Invitation," there is a rather hilarious juxtaposition of a two-page spread of Sylvie stretching followed by a two-page spread of a cat lazing.
...and how can a thread like this be without a mention of
Dancing With Cats?
Well, I hope to have a long, careful look at that delightful-appearing site a bit later. Thanks, Koshka! And folks, you realize that Koshka means "cat!" So we know which side you're on!
sparklesocks
Aug 30 2006, 10:46 PM
I had a sweet little orange kitty named Minou. Alas, she didn't live long (only 8 months.) She seemed to think she was a dog...would come when you whistled, would sit pretty for a treat, would play fetch, and best of all...would "do ballet." This was a bit of a variation on sit pretty with the addition of a few steps on hind legs to make about 3/4 of a turn. Quite cute. Had she had a longer life, my other half and I are confident she would have been about to do a "double" within a few months! She was wonderful.
bart
Aug 31 2006, 08:02 AM
QUOTE (koshka @ Aug 30 2006, 09:47 PM)

...and how can a thread like this be without a mention of
Dancing With Cats?
Thanks. Those cats sure have their people trained. Did you notice Petipa putting human Ralph through his paces?
carbro
Sep 3 2006, 09:05 PM
Matthew Murphy, on his
blog, shows us a pic of his schnauzer, Mazie (a real cutie!), and one of Marcelo Gomes' Lua, a "prize winning"* dachshund with a very wise and wary expression.
*just quoting. For details, ask either Matt or Marcelo.
Kanawha
Sep 4 2006, 11:06 AM
This topic brings to mind my mother, God Bless her soul, who gave me a love for both cats and dance. I don't think she could have been happier than when she had a cat on her lap while watching a Fred Astaire movie. Today, my family would not be complete without those beautiful and funny creatures. Luckily, my husband is a patient man who also has affection for all pets in general. I have a tabby, Roxanna, with very pronounced markings on her face. It looks like perfectly applied stage make-up for a sylph, especially the dramatic eye liner. Then there is KC, our solid white kitty with big green eyes. She is 19 now, but in her heyday she was the White Cat of Sleeping Beauty.
I have also noticed a couple of our cats like to watch the movement of dancers on some of the ballet DVD's. They like the men's high jumps and turns and the willis in Act II of Giselle. But, truth be told, they prefer watching ice skaters over dancers. I think it makes them jealous to think that a mere human can move in that manner. I, being a good cat mom and wanting to keep their self esteem intact, always explain to them the special circumstances that enables people to do that. But it's nice to know they can appreciate lovely movement too - other than birds flying past the window.
Gina Ness
Sep 21 2006, 02:23 AM
Yet another vote for the cat! Has anyone ever read my profile? :grinning-smiley-001: I have pet cats, cat art, cat garden scuptures, many "cat books", an Edward Weston photograph of the "Cats of Wildcat Hill"...well, I can't help myself! Love those cats!
Ostrich
Sep 21 2006, 01:28 PM
Another cat dancer for the record: Nikolai Tsiskaridze. He owns one too!
As regards whether dancers tend more to owning cats than dogs, I think that cats will naturally seem to come out the winners because they are easier to keep in flats. Most dancers just don't have the space to accommodate boisterous Siberian Huskies or Rotweilers.
zerbinetta
Sep 21 2006, 02:51 PM
QUOTE (Ostrich @ Sep 21 2006, 02:28 PM)

Another cat dancer for the record: Nikolai Tsiskaridze. He owns one too!
Does one ever "own" a cat? The other way around, in my experience, which is vast.
Gina Ness
Sep 21 2006, 03:26 PM
This reminds me of that saying,"Dogs have owners, cats have staff."
carbro
Sep 21 2006, 09:54 PM
QUOTE (Ostrich @ Sep 21 2006, 02:28 PM)

I think that cats will naturally seem to come out the winners because they are easier to keep in flats. Most dancers just don't have the space to accommodate boisterous Siberian Huskies or Rotweilers.
You may be surprised to know the number and sizes of dogs some people keep in their flats. On the other hand, it is more likely to actually spot a dog owner than a cat owner, since people rarely take their cats outside. Let them out, perhaps, but not as a feline-human duo/trio/quartet, etc.
ViolinConcerto
Sep 21 2006, 11:27 PM
QUOTE (Kanawha @ Sep 4 2006, 12:06 PM)

I have also noticed a couple of our cats like to watch the movement of dancers on some of the ballet DVD's. They like the men's high jumps and turns and the willis in Act II of Giselle. But, truth be told, they prefer watching ice skaters over dancers.

I photographed one of my cats, when she was about a year old, sitting, looking at the TV, while I was watching the old Berlin recording of the 4T's. The next minute she reached up to touch the screen.....and I got that also! I mounted them together and called it "'Princess' Studying the finer points of the 4 T's" (name changed to protect the silly.)
Ostrich
Sep 22 2006, 12:21 PM
QUOTE
Does one ever "own" a cat? The other way around, in my experience, which is vast.
True, zerbinetta. Maybe this thread should read "Are ballet lovers more often dog-owners or cat-owned?"
Personally, I own two dogs, and one cat owns me.
QUOTE
This reminds me of that saying,"Dogs have owners, cats have staff."
"Dogs come when called. Cats have answering machines."
pas de chat
Oct 25 2006, 06:35 AM
Cats all the way! (which made the problem of picking a forum name easier!)
bart
Oct 25 2006, 09:24 AM
QUOTE (pas de chat @ Oct 25 2006, 07:35 AM)

Cats all the way! (which made the problem of picking a forum name easier!)
I wonder what a "pas de chien" would look like, if such a thing existed.
Helene
Oct 25 2006, 10:21 AM
I think we should all be horse people, addicted to dressage.
carbro
Oct 25 2006, 10:52 AM
Tracing three circles on the floor and then lying down?
bart
Oct 25 2006, 10:54 AM
QUOTE (carbro @ Oct 25 2006, 11:52 AM)

Tracing three circles on the floor and then lying down?
Or, digging around into the throw pillows and THEN lying down?
Would the dancer be required to approximate (or allude to) tail-wagging?
diane
Oct 25 2006, 11:27 AM
That is very good, "dogs come when called; cats have answering machines" !
We share our apartment with a cat, and I loooooove dogs and cats both.
Ideally there would be several of each around all the time.
(I grew up with two felines and at least one canine at all times, plus diverse fish, turtles, frogs, a bird...)
Someone mentioned that many dancers perhaps kept cats because it was easier in an apartment.
That was sure the case for myself.
It is why I ended up with a cat - and not a dog - when I was still dancing.
A cat
tends to fit easier into small places than does a dog.
However, I have not given up all hope of having a dog again.
-d-
Bill
Oct 25 2006, 12:13 PM
We have birds. But no firebirds or even bluebirds, alas.
GoCoyote!
Oct 25 2006, 02:37 PM
QUOTE (Bill @ Oct 25 2006, 06:13 PM)

We have birds. But no firebirds or even bluebirds, alas.
So it must be swans right? Wow! - how many? .... the full set? - one top swan, two secondary swans, four signets and a bunch of other swans?
I am a dog person without a dog. I had a beautiful 'pet' moth in my last flat. Well it was just there really... very low maintenance, the perfect pet for living in a big city.
Alina
Oct 26 2006, 12:59 PM
I am a dog person. I like cats too but unfortunately am allergic. I think most dancers are more likely cat people because of their long hours, touring, etc. I do remember fondly, back in the 80's when there would be a whole line-up of dogs sleeping in the corner of the room during Maggie Black's class!
Bill
Oct 26 2006, 02:02 PM
QUOTE (GoCoyote! @ Oct 25 2006, 03:37 PM)

So it must be swans right? Wow! - how many? .... the full set? - one top swan, two secondary swans, four signets and a bunch of other swans?

This is getting way off-topic, but I once lived near a canal with swans in residence. They seemed brave and would hiss if you came too close. Like the corps protecting Odette in Act II?
Hans
Oct 28 2006, 08:13 PM
There may not be a pas de chien, but there is a sort of dog position: attitude derrière with the leg not directly behind the dancer. Dog at the fire hydrant.
bart
Oct 28 2006, 09:07 PM
That works for male dogs only. Female dogs prefer a version of
grand plie in second. No fire hydrant required.
Our (male) dog, when in pursuit of a tennis ball in the air, can occasionally be seen doing
tour jete,
brise vole, and even
cabriole ouverte in 1st arabesque.
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