I know this is late for the original Peeves thread but I will burst with anger if I do not get this off my chest!

The Sleeping Beauty danced by the Kirov started at 7.00pm some 30 minutes before the normal curtain up at the ROH with a number of empty seats. So far so good, the Prologue was enjoyed by all. The empty seats filled before the start of Act I including two right in front of me, two rows down. Immediately the orchestra started to play this couple started whispering to each other in a most intimate way until she put her arms around him and laid her head on his shoulder. Eventually the girl in front of me leaned forward to complain she could not see the stage at all, got a withering look as the couple parted but at least they did move even though they occasionally whispered in each other’s ear!

The ballet was not scheduled to end till around 10.45pm and a number of people, including the two in front of me, left before the start of Act III, no doubt to get the last train/bus home. It was at this point that my misery started. The girl noticing the now empty seats behind her pointed this out to her companion and the whispering restarted. First she whispered in his ear then he leant across and whispered in her ear, she stroked his hair put her arm around him and then began a non-stop conversation accompanied by nodding her head side to side to the bits of the music she thought catchy.

I was helpless to do anything about their behaviour, it was impossible for me to reach over two rows of seats and I could not request loudly for them to stop and disturb the rest of the audience so I just got more and more angry. I wanted to shout at them a ballet has no words and the foyer was available for conversation. Why would any couple pay £142 ($220) just to talk and ignore dancers as great as Diana Vishneva and Anton Korsakov? Sorry to go on at length about this but a most wonderful performance was marred by their incredible ill-mannered behaviour without doubt the worst I have ever experienced.

To round of my tale of woe, the following night with Uliana Lopatkina holding the audience spellbound with her dancing in the quietest section of Act III in Swan Lake a cell phone started to play a loud pop tune in the row in front and the lady had to search for her handbag under her seat then rummage about to find the phone. Thank god she turned it off and didn’t start a conversation!!

We've all had similar situations. It reduces us to be as politely rude as possible when we ask them to stop the disturbing behavior. A rolled up program could be used to gently nudge them, followed by a stage whisper. Perhaps someone sitting to the side of them in the row between the 2 of you could gently nudge them and then you do the stage whisper. I've gotten to the point where I don't care if people give me a withering look; I'm right, a senior citizen, and I deserve respect.
I've told this story before but I love it and can't resist repeating. A young woman kept stealing down from the upper balcony seats and sitting in the empty seat in front of me. The usher asked her to move and she did, but she was back by curtain time. She wore a hat forcryingoutloud! I'm short and couldn't see over the hat so I asked her if she'd kindly remove her hat. She did, and unleashed the frizziest, most bouffant head of hair I've ever seen, making the hat definitely the lesser of 2 evils.

Giannina

[ 07-01-2001: Message edited by: Giannina Mooney ]

Colwill, I had exactly this experience at the Mariinsky in St. Petersburg, so at least the Kirov are probably used to it! The couple involved were Russian, and luckily I was with people whose Russian was better than mine. The trouble-makers got a lecture in the interval, and meekly behaved for the rest of the performance.

Colwill:
I blame the ROH management for the ringing cellphones - their polite request for 'all mobile 'phones and pagers to be switched off' is just too polite. A far sharper warning is needed along the lines of 'the management takes no responsibility for the safety of any member of the audience whose mobile 'phone goes of during the performance'the inference being that the offender will be in danger from other members of the audience (which indeed they would be if they sat next to me).

I cannot understand why theatre managements in general don't take a far tougher line with this particular curse of the electronic age.

How about "Holders of ringing cell phones will be crucified. Upside down." Yeah! ;)

Colwill wrote: "Why would any couple pay £142 ($220) just to talk and ignore dancers as great as Diana Vishneva and Anton Korsakov?"

This is beyond me as well. And it seems fairly common. Part of it in the U.S. may be that people are used to loud movie theaters, where no one shuts up and cell phones, pagers and other electronc devices go off constantly. In a movie theater if a person with a ringing cell phone doesn’t actually take the call it is considered polite. But it is only a movie, it is less than ten dollars and generally the sound is turned up to such ear-splitting volume that it doesn’t make much difference.

The worst is audiences for opera and ballet. There is some respect for spoken theater, since unless one can hear the words there isn't much point to a production of "Hedda Gabler". Symphonic music and chamber music also fare pretty well. Not many people buy tickets to a concert by a string quartet so they can talk to each other and the "sushers" in concert halls are often aggressive. The big problem is not talking but sleeping. And not just sleeping, but snoring. Even if the snorer is awakened and admonished, one is still worried that he will nod off and start again.

The behavior that Colwill describes is so hideous that it is surprising that the people in front of the offending couple didn’t tell them to keep quiet. Having chatterers behind us is always more than my wife or I can stand. The continued public display of affection that this couple engaged in is also extremely rude. They are saying that they need not concern themselves about whether others can see the stage or hear the music since they are so much in love that they just can’t keep quiet about it and the whole world must feel the same.

I was once on the receiving end of a rebuke. It was many years ago at Orchestra Hall in Chicago. We had gotten student rush tickets for Solti leading the Chicago Symphony Orchestra in Mahler’s Sixth. We couldn’t believe our luck when we found our seats—seventh or eight row, center aisle. Perhaps the couple whose subscription entitled them to those seats weren’t speaking to each other and decided to stay home to not talk.

At that time the CSO concerts were very big deals—-Solti was the cultural god of the Windy City. The first chair players were like talented chamber players and the orchestra had great depth. The Mahler symphonies had been ecstaticly received and were wonderfully played. Getting these tickets was like a gift from god.

Both of us were simply transfixed. The first movement of the sixth symphony is long—Solti probably played it in 21 or 22 minutes. I might have taken 21 or 22 breaths during that time. The first movement ended and I just slumped for a minute in my seat and looked at my companion. She whispered something like “Wasn’t that amazing?” but since both of us were glassy eyed, there was no point in answering. I shifted in my seat to get comfortable as the orchestra tuned up. Before Solti gave the downbeat the man in the seat directly behind me hissed in my ear “Will you please stay still and tell her to keep quiet?!” I was shocked and couldn’t imagine that he enjoyed that or any concert very much.

I think we've all suffered from the talkers, the lovers, the cell phones/pagers etc. But while we are on the subject of peeves, mine is parents who feel they need to reinforce the story to their offspring, constantly, or who have not sufficiently primed their children NOT to talk during the performance OR who have not bothered to consider whether their particular child is able to sit quietly through an act or a whole ballet/concert, play, or whatever. :rolleyes:

This is seems to be a good place to get my recent night of horror. On Tuesday at NYCB's Midsummer, the woman next to me was snorring so loud that people several rows away turned around 2) a woman not in front of me but two rows ahead sat at the very edge of her seat so she could stare into the orchestra pit, thus blocking the whole of the right part of the stage from my line of vision. I couldn't understand this as she was sitting in the first row of the balcony and easily see without sitting so far foward. 3) the lovely people in back of me whom were discussing all the costumes and dancers at length while the ballet was going. But what to do?

Cowill, I would have resorted to the, "Ahh, can you tap on the woman ahead of you." bit to the person just in front and then try to make hand gestures or wisper for the couple to move apart so you could see (the same thing happened to me at a performance of the Joffrey at City Center).

I also asked my Russian teacher for the expressions, "Can you please be quiet?" and "Can you please sit back?" to help me for whenever the Bolshoi and the Kirov comes into town. I found that some people are pleased that you took the effort to speak to them in their own language, that the will in fact sit back and stop talking.

About cell phones, I've just given up. I figured there was something wrong with my hearing that when there are announcements at theatres or tennis matches to turn cell phones and beepers off, I just missed the part that said, "except the woman in section 4, seat 13, you can keep yours on." In story ballets, I accept the fact that there will be at least one phone ringing per act.

Just carry a peashooter from now on, with a liberal supply of peas. ;)

At a performance of ABT's Swan Lake with Ananishvili last week, a friend of ours fell asleep and started to snore during the performance! At least when it's someone you walk in with, you can punch them in the ribs. She was not only wakened by another one of my seat mates, but we doubt that we'll share Ananishvili with her again!

This thread reminds me of a great anecdote. Actor Kevin Spacey was starring in a revivial of 'The Iceman Cometh' on Broadway a couple of years ago. During a performance the cell phone of someone who was sitting in one of the front rows rang out. Spacey glared at the person and simply stated, 'Tell him we're busy.' Too bad ballet dancers can't do that.

My husband works from calls he gets off his cell phone. If he misses a call he could be missing work. However, he ALWAYS turns his phone to vibrate, checks the number if it goes off and calls at intermission. This seems a good alternative, and I don't understand why more people don't institute it.

I have gotten to the point where I will be as rude as I need to be in order to let unappropriate audience members know that their behavior is not acceptable. Short of disturbing those around me.

Many years ago I attended a concert given by Andre Segovia, the legendary classical guitar player. It was February and many people had the sniffles or were coughing. Segovia was quite elderly at that time. He made countless mistakes. Several times he seemed to forget where he was in a piece and had to start all over again. About halfway through the performance, he suddenly stopped playing, and stood up facing the audience. With dramatic flare, he whisked out his handkerchief, coughed gently into it, glared out at the crowd and put the handkerchief away. No one dared to cough, sneeze or sniff for the rest of the performance.

He must've felt badly because at the very end of the evening, Segovia again faced the audience, apologized for playing poorly and asked that people not hold it against him. He didn't, however, apologize for the coughing lesson. Wonder what he would've done in this cell phone era?

Phones ringing in performances seems to be reaching epidemic levels, I haven't been to a single performance, ballet, opera or play, in the last two years (which must in triple figures) in which a phone hasn't rung. They don't even just ring now, they play very loud tunes, last week we had one which even manage to resound over Shostokovich's Lady Macbeth, anyone who knows the opera can imagine how loud that phone must have been! What a shame the devices that block mobile signals are not legal, maybe a large fine for any phone that rings would work, I'm sure audience members sitting close would happily report the culprit.
Amy

I think I'm learning something wonderful about the Washington audience -- they turn off their cell phones! This is a very rare occurrence here -- but the Kennedy Center has ushers who are extremely diligent. Let a flash camera go off, and a dozen little red coated people scurry down the aisle. Snitches sitting in the area around the Offender point fingers, they cluster at that aisle and GLARE at the Offender until it is absolutely clear that the next time s/he'll be dragged out of the house. (Of course, the clustered ushers block one's view, but that's another story.)

Can you send some of those ushers out here? we desperately need them.

Speaking of ushers. I was at the Opera House a couple of months back and had to ask the ushers in the aisle to 1) please move and 2) please shut up. The USHERS for pete's sake! Maybe I need to move to DC.

LCMTech:
Ushers are bad everywhere. Moving won't help. I tried it. It didn't do any good. Sometimes I think it's gotten WORSE!

On Topic:
I think this problem is quite revelent. People pay a large amount of money to show affection in a formal public place like the opera house. That doesn't sound correct, does it? Please permit me to change the discussion or it will go nowhere:

I think we should discuss what we can do to change such behavoir. Well, for one, I think there could be announcements at the beggining of the show, along with the usual "Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to our production of...". Here's a few I like:

"Please remember to turn off your cell phones. If this is not possible, please leave the theatre and go into the foyer."

I think cell phones shouldn't be permitted altogether in the theatre. If something drastic happens, there should be a public-use phone in the main foyer on the desk.

"Please be considerate of those around you by staying quiet for the duration of the performance."

This is a polite way of saying "You're in a formal setting, so shut up." It might work. (?)

I also think that in theatres that do not have efficiently slanted seating arrangement, there should be a hieght restriction for hair and hats! ;)

I worked my way through high school as an usher at a playhouse back in the dark ages pre-pagers no less. The system then was that doctors and others on call left the theater # with their answering service and their seat number with the head usher. We would sneak up and tap the needed person on the shoulder. Even 15 years ago when we left infant kiddo with a sitter to go see the opening season of Miami City Ballet, we left the sitter with the theater # and our seat location.
But of course that was before the era when everyone was so terrrrribly important that they felt they were always on call, and before bosses expected their employees to snap to attention even on Saturday night.

I must be very lucky; I've never heard a cell phone ring during a live performance or a movie. I have been disturbed by talkers and cooing couples, however. Oddly, this happens much more in the theater than in the movies. Not being a shy person, I usually can put a stop to it fairly quickly.

~Steve

I have often wondered why there is no law against the non-emergency use of cell phones, beepers and the like in auditoriums. I may just be inspired to ask my state rep to file such a bill in the legislature.

It may take that to get it to stop, Bill! It's a shame that it is like that, but, until you start fining people they tend to do whatever they want to do. Requesting that the phones and beepers be turned off just doesn't seem to do it. Making it a law may be the only way, unfortunately

I was in the audience of Cabaret, on Broadway, recently, and in the middle of one of the most beautiful songs in the show a phone started ringing, right down center front, and it rang at least three times before the person found it and turned it off. If I had been sitting next to them I'm not sure what I would have done, but I know what I would have been tempted to do!

I agree with the pea guy!!! LOL!!!

I bet those $220 tickets were free, some true ballet lover found they couldn't use them that night (on call, needed their cell phone). Wouldn't they be devastated to know their most generous gift was treated so shabbily? I do have to confess , my cell phone rang once in a ballet. I was SURE I had turned it off, but guess I didn't have the power button held down long enough. It was right in the lovely section of the snow scene that is REALLY quiet. I quickly sat on my whole purse to muffle the sound until it would stop ringing and I could take it out and turn it off. I've NEVER made that mistake again! Signed, Sammie , hiding in shades from embarrassment.

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Sammie ]

You're brave and honest, Sammie, so that must count for something! Welcome -- have you "delurked" yet? If you'd like an official welcome from The Welcome Lady (Giannina), please tell us something about yourself on the Welcome forum.

A word about the wonderful people called House Managers. If someone near you is driving you nuts, ask an usher for the house manager at intermission. She or he has seen and heard everything, and is prepared to either make it go away, or reseat you elsewhere, if possible. I cannot abide cell phones, cannot stand talkers, wonder why the enamored didn't stay home in bed, where they would be more comfortable, and have a particular loathing for babes in arms, because I am always waiting for them to cry. (Don't shoot me; I stayed home with mine when they were new, communing with the La Leche league.) Nonetheless, nothing but nothing is worse then a cellophane candy being unwrapped in a hopelessly furtive manner, while all around people think about what they would like to do to the noisemaker, possibly employing the coughdrop.
Honorable mention to the person who dropped an iced coca cola in the Metropolitan Opera House, where it sloshed downstream, wrecking my evening slippers.

At least you know what evening slippers are!

I am not going to open myself for socially correct target practice by mentioning the appalling disregard for appropriate dress for social occasions such as ballet or theatre performances. Sigh...

The whole point of going out is getting to wear one's shoes, no? Note: I have just acquired some 1920s Chinese embroidered evening slippersat an out of the way dealer in London. What Bloomsbury wore to the ballet....to see Lydia Lopukova before she married Meynard Keynes.

The National Ballet of Canada takes policing its audience members very seriously! Below is a link outlining detailed guidelines for audience behavior at the Hummingbird Centre: http://www.national.ballet.ca/EducationAnd...h/etiquette.php

Sure you’re laughing now! One misfortunate soul who callously broke the strict “No Cell Phone” bylaw was shocked when Kudelka’s Bears from the Nutcracker yanked him from his seat and pulled him onto the stage right in the middle of Swan Lake to make an example of him! The entire corp de ballet rushed onto the stage and beat the stupid bastard mercilessly with their pointe shoes to get their “No Cell Phone” policy through the lunkhead’s melon!

And why is it that there are so many with cellophane-wrapped candy at the ballet!!! I never notice this noise any other location than the theater during a ballet. And to think that NBC actually puts this request in writing. Hurray!!! :bouncing:

At the New York State Theater it might help if the ushers would enforce what I used to understand as the policy-- No one is seated after the ballet has started. This past season the ushers seated a couple at least 4-5 minutes after the ballet had started.

I also think that most people do no understand that when you lean forward in your seat your are blocking the view of the person behind you. This should be part of the announcement before the performance that mentions no photographs and turning off cell phones. That being said I attended a performance when someone politely asked the person in front of her to sit back in her seat and she refused pleading a bad back.

Yes, what are we unfortunate folk with health problems to do? Stop going to the theatre, even though we behave (and dress) otherwise impeccably? I, too, have to lean forward in my seat at some point in every performance to alleviate the advancing, gripping pain my abdominal tumour imposes on me if I sit in an upright position for longer than an hour. I realize that that may obstruct the view of a person behind me, depending on how the seats are arranged, and always feel guilty for having to do so.

When possible, I choose a seat that will allow me to hunch myself over to accommodate the pain I know will come during the performance. Perhaps I and others who struggle with pain, should become first-act-only balletgoers?

I am curious to know why this topic posted over two years ago has suddenly been revived. Was it recovered from the archives. :rolleyes:

Colwill, as with the former software, topics (unless they're moved to the archives) are never closed, and can be reopened at any time by simply posting a reply. I guess Marga found this one and had something to add to it. You can control how many posts are shown in the control panel (the same as we could before) by choosing to expose 30 days, or 5 days, or "from the beginning." If only five days of posts show on the forum list, that doesn't mean the others are gone. It just means they're "hiding." If you select "show from the beginning" you'll get several screens of posts in each forum. But this isn't a change.

Oh, if anything drives me crazy, it's bad theatre etiquette. I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but it's relevant here, too. My high school's band and chorus took a trip to New York this past spring, and on the itenerary was a performance of Beauty and the Beast. During the course of the performance, no less than half a dozen of my classmates were snapping pictures of the stage. I stopped the ones near me with a dirty look and a hissed "Are you crazy?!" I tried to explain during intermission how distracting - and even dangerous - it can be to see all those little flashes in your face when you're onstage, but ninety teenagers aren't going to listen to one, unfortuantely. A cell phone also went off, from my group again, I'm sorry to say. I was so angry by the end of the performance that it took me about twenty minutes to unclench my teeth after leaving the theatre. I was so embarrassed even to be seen with them. People can be so rude and inconsiderate it's just unbelievable.

I really hate it when people's babies cry at the end of year performance and all you can hear on the video tape that is made for us is the sound of crying screaming babies. I know it is hard for people to leave little babies at home sometimes but I do wish they would take them out of the theatre when the baby starts to cry. :angry: Maybe some Valium might help (Just kidding, really I am )

I guess we all experienced some sort of disruption or bad behavior at a performance...here's mine.
Last year I bought season tickets for SFB as a gift for my hard working dd. We had wonderful seats and enjoyed all the performances...except one.
We were to see Elite Synchopations (sp?). Neither one of us knew what to expect, so when the curtain went up we were on the edge of our seats! My daughter had the biggest smile on her face. The costumes were wonderful! Very shortly after the curtain went up...a man sat down right in front of my daughter. He had an odor about him that was annoying but not too offensive. The problem was, he wouldn't stop itching! I don't know if he needed a bath or what. He scratched his head over and over, then his side then his neck, then his face....I am sure you get the picture. He kept shifting back and forth to get better scratching coverage. I am sure the people behind my daughter were getting upset too. She kept moving to see around him. The whole night was a fiasco. It was such a disappointment to miss so much of this fabulous ballet. :angry:

Ah, cell phones. As a teenager most think I am probably one of the rudest of all and don't consider others at all. That's the general feeling I've gotten when I'm at ballets and such. A cell phone rings and heaven forbid there be a group of teenagers sitting together because it must be them! I for one, do not even have a cell phone. I think leaving your phone on is so incredibly rude. It is as though the offender seems to think that they are so important it is unnecessary for them to follow directions. Ugh. Local school theatre, the ballet, Broadway, I've heard the phones in all of them. I hate it. That's all there is to it. If it is so important for you to get a call, stay home and wait. That's what people did before cell phones were around. They survived for 3 or so hours without a phone fix. Get over yourselves, I say to them.

Heather

Well fortunately, so far both my husband and I have been fastidious in making sure our cell phones are turned OFF before entering the theater. If you do it before you sit down -- its done!

BUT... several months ago my daughter had finished dancing for the evening and was changed and watching in the wings while waiting for her husband to finish. She didn't bother to turn off her phone -- who would call her? Most of her friends and of course her husband were in the theater...except Mom. I wondered why when I called it rang about two times and was picked up and quickly extinguished. She called me later that night to explain.

I can't help giggling over some of these stories -- especially the tale of the itching man ... yuck. But -- until you've lived in my city, you have yet to experience real boorishness at the ballet. Yes, this is a fun city, but it's definitely low brow in its performance-attending behavior -- no matter how much you dress 'em up and how much they donate. I hate to say it, but performing here has to be a dancer's nightmare.

Example: when Baryshnikov first danced with Mark Morris, the company was brought to this city by an entity other than the association that typically brings dance companies here, and the company performed in an auditorium not typically used for dance performances, perhaps to an audience not entirely typical of the usual peformance goers. Still -- what chaos! These poor rubes apparently didn't understand what they were going to see. They catcalled and wolf-whistled at Baryshnikov. A good portion of the audience conversed in everyday speaking tones. And -- hordes of people, sounding like sailors stomping on a gang plank, kept up a continuous entry and exit through swinging doors, carting in jumbo-sized colas, boxes of popcorn, and cellophane-wrapped candy. You could hear the ice jangling, the popcorn crunching, and the candy spilling on the non-carpeted floor.

Our regular dance goers aren't much better. By way of background, there is no ballet company here. About 12 or 13 years ago was the last year of the existence of tri-city ballet. Since that time, there is an association that brings about 6 major dance performances per year to a performing arts theater (which has yet to put soap in the restrooms). Everything starts late in this town, and dance is no different. If a performance is to start at 8:00, that's when most people are leaving their houses for the performance, which doesn't get underway until about a 1/2 hour later. And when I say "get underway," I don't mean that the dancing starts. Nope -- that's when the association director comes out onstage with the corporate sponsors and they all congratulate each other over and over again on bringing this company here, and the audience has to clap repeatedly. It must be so nice for the dancers to warm up and then hurry up and wait.

The intermissions go on indefinitely. This is a drinking town, and that takes precedence. At the end of a very long evening, the dancers have to come back out on stage (tired, sweating and aching -- probably wanting nothing more than a hot shower and a meal) and give, as part of the deal with the association, an "Informance" -- doing Q and A with the audience members who opt to stay afterwards.

The whole thing embarrasses me, having come from a Midwestern city of the same size that treats dancers like gold. It's the only Midwestern city that has continually and by itself supported a ballet company, kept it in the black all these years, and given it the same attention and support the city gives its opera, theater, symphony and sports. The company's headquarters are in the most beautiful studios I have ever seen -- and I've been in a lot of studios throughout the country. The theater is set up so well -- parking is in an adjacent building, accessible by skywalk. There is a wonderful little restaurant and lounge in the lower level. The building is elegant and well tended. And the audience arrives on time -- or isn't seated -- is punctual about returning from intermissions, would never think of bringing in food or drink, and behaves like true balletomanes. That city is an unsung jewel.

So why aren't you naming the "unsung jewel"???

I apologize. I guess I was making the assumption that most balletomanes knew which major cities in the U.S. sustained their own ballet companies, and which major cities did not, or, in the alternative, shared a company with one or two other cities. With that said, I think it might be interesting to share, in the near future, a bit of history of ballet companies in the Midwest, in a different thread, perhaps within the section devoted to American Ballet Companies. I've done some research, interviewing and writing in this respect, and hopefully, can share some insights. More later.

Oh, Funny Face, you have a cruel streak!

Funny Face's experience sounds a lot like the movie-going public. One of the perks of being retired is that I can go to the movies in the afternoon and sit in a relatively empty theater---maybe a dozen people. However, last week I went to see "Seabiscuit" and the theater was crowded. I had a large family nearby and they never stopped shopping for food!--constantly up and down the aisle. This, combined with audible chatter and the sickening smell of tubs of popcorn convinced me to wait a few weeks before seeing a popular movie. :shrug:

P.S.--I loved "Seabiscuit"

Oh no, it wasn't me who dug in the archives! I don't have time for that. I just respond to active threads. If you check page 2 of this thread, you'll see that it was creativejuice who revived the 2 year old thread, then nlkflint and Mark D who responded to it before I did. Just to set things straight!

I think it was a good thing to get this thread going again -- look at all the peeves being aired! Like, when those on either side of you lay claim to both armrests, hemming you in with only your lap for your hands.